Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: As the world changes, so does leadership.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hello, I'm Carlos Martin, host of Leadership Evolving and NOW Media Television.
On Leadership Evolving, we bring you real talk about mindset, resilience, culture, influence and purpose.
Every episode features thought leaders, innovators and everyday visionaries sharing insights, experience and strategies you can use.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Let's explore how your voice can help
[00:00:30] Speaker B: others evolve to leadership.
Watch Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television and step into the leader you are becoming.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: And today we explore what it takes to lead with purpose and impact.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Leadership today evolving tomorrow.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: All right. Welcome to Leadership Evolving. I am Carlos Martin. Today my host or my host, my guest, rather is Chris Nudo, managing partner of Integrity Law. Since earning his JD in 1993, Chris Nudo has built a legal practice centered on wills, trust, business, secessions, real estate transactions, nonprofit law, church ministry, and faith based counsel for individuals, families, ministries and organizations. Now that was a mouthful, but I am super excited to talk to you about so many things. Chris Dudo, welcome to Leadership Evolving.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Carlos, thank you for having me.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. That intro, I have to say I love it because of, it sounds that it's very centered around families and faith.
So before we start to dive in a little bit more, kind of give us a bird's eye view of what, not only what you do and, and who's Chris Nudo? What are some of his, his, his personal pillars? If, if you don't mind.
[00:01:52] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for the question. You know, I'm trained formally as an attorney here in the Chicago metro area, but reality is that Christ is my cornerstone.
My faith really defines everything that Integrity Law does.
Years ago there was a shift, if you would, from just being an attorney in town to being an attorney in town. That makes a difference for the people.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Love that, that, that, that's fantastic. And again, I think I was married to an attorney, so I, and I had a large ecosystem of friends that were attorneys. So I'm very well connected into, into that world.
So, Chris, when you look back to the beginning of your, of your legal career, if you will, what, what was it about that when you saw that it was more about the people, not just the cases, the facts and the, in the documents, you could say, yeah,
[00:03:03] Speaker C: yeah, so there was definitely a transition in my life. You know, I've been practicing law since I was in, since 1993 and in 2006 was a real turning point. And I like to just say that was the point where the Lord looked at me and said, Chris, you've been given all the facts, right? You know who I am as God and You need to choose whether or not you're going to put me first among all things and, and live your life the way you've been taught.
And it was at that point that I did that. And then the internal voices in me said, my conscience said, well, if you're making that decision, Chris, now there's things that need to change.
And that's when all of a sudden the release came. Where? Now when I think of a client, I'm not thinking them as a billable hour. I'm not thinking them as a dollar sign or a document or a transaction. I'm looking at them and I'm saying, here's a person with a problem, a pain, and the Lord has put them in my pathway so that I can do my port, my part to help them with whatever that portion of life is that they're suffering with.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Well, I have to say, I don't think I've ever heard a, a, an attorney speak that way, not only by himself, but also of other individuals. And you mentioned what needed to change besides what you kind of shared with us. What needed to change more on your, if you don't mind me asking, on your perspective on your side. So not necessarily outward, but internal for you. Yeah, internal. Thank you. For you.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: Personally, I had to peel back the shell that most of us wear, and let me tell you, the shell that most of us wear is multiple, is, has multiple layers. And I don't believe we ever remove all of the layers of who we pretend to be to the public, but it was a stripping away of this image that I wanted to portray. And I had to become very vulnerable.
I had to let people know how their pain intersected with me and my experiences. And what I learned was that people really relate to things that come together when the similarities is a better way to say it. So when I could feel their pain from a very personal standpoint and I could explain to them how I was going to approach their situation from their point of view.
That connection builds great relationships. And really the practice of law, especially with wills and trusts and the type of law I do is really comes down to core relationships. And so to answer your question, Carlos, it was the stripping away of the mask of the, the pretending of being some high powered, shiny, good looking lawyer and really letting people into who Chris Nudo was. And that was a real transformation, I have to say.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: I'm, I'm, I'm moved. But also I'm, I'm intrigued and also surprised again to hear that from, to bring such humanity into your practice.
Within the, the, I want to say ecosystem, but in, in, in, in law.
And maybe that's coming from my perspective of what I remember from not only my ex wife, but is working with, with attorneys.
And like you said, it was this pretentious, it was this look at me, look at what I drive, look at what the house I have and that type of thing. And, and I know I'm throwing a very large blanket statement. I mean, I think it's a bit unfair and at the same time, the way that you're speaking only by yourself, but your practice and the pain points of others, to me, that is outside of, of the law, that is throwing a, a human aspect into what you do in your services.
So a first I, I thank you.
How is that showing up or how is that affecting showing up your, the individuals that you're working, like for example, you said you're looking at their pinpoints. How has that shifted from the, your, your client's perspective? How has that shifted towards you or how they see you as not only in your law service, but as Chris Nudo?
[00:08:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So there's really two variations that we work with here at the law firm. And those are the people who want to keep the relationship extremely transactional and the others who want to develop the relationship, the transactional people, we can't change them. So they come in, we try to establish a deeper, more meaningful relationship, but they're very guarded. They've really come in mainly just for us to do what honestly, they just want us to do. So in a very simple sense, if we owned a landscaping business, they just want us to cut the lawn. That's it, just cut the lawn.
They, you know, even so I might do other services, they just want me to cut the lawn and.
But then there's all of those other clients. And I would say these are the ones that we attract the most. They're the ones that want to develop the relationship. And I know relationship is overused, but relationship is really the connectivity to where you say something I can identify, and then I can give it back to you in a way that you feel heard, you feel valued.
In estate planning, we like to remind people that developing a will or a trust or doing those type of things is a form of a love language. Because honestly, you're gonna die. And when you die, what you leave behind, that legacy, those memories, those connection points, how your estate is set up is really what people are going to remember. And so if I can get to know you very personally, it helps me develop a really meaningful estate. Plan for your family. And that's really where this integrity, this, this value based proposition really shows itself the most.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Again, I feel like I'm not talking to an attorney right now. Everything that you're telling me. And again, pleasantly surprised. You know, you also mention the transactional. Like that is more what I think, not only from an attorney perspective, but also from a corporate perspective, just the facts, ma' am kind of thing.
And as an executive coach, I needed to learn that not everybody is the same kind of meet them, you know, where they are. So if someone does want that transactional experience, like you said, just cut the grass, that's it.
Then we needed to provide that. Otherwise it creates a resistance there. So I think having the, the ability, you as an individual, not only as an attorney, but as Chris Noodle, as a human to be able to have the ability and the flexibility to meet your client, what they are.
And because I think of an attorney, they may not have the soft side or the emotional intelligence that you do when you're talking to, to an individual.
I want to go down the rabbit hole of the love language into the legacy. But I know I'm going to leave that for our session number two as we start to wrap up this. But thank you for bringing that, that the human side of it.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: So thank you.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. And we're going to dive a little bit more into the love language of your legacy because like you said, we're all going to die. Thank you for that. All right, stay tuned. We'll be right back with Leadership Evolving. We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:12:02] Speaker B: stories and transformative leadership conversations. Stay with us. Leadership Today Evolving tomorrow.
I'm Carlos Martin and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: Leadership Today Evolving tomorrow.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: All right, welcome back.
Remember to stay connected to this show and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand, anytime you like, Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock the nonstop bilingual programming in English or in espanol on the move. Sure, why not? Catch the podcast version. And now Media tv. From business, news and lifestyle culture and beyond, NOW Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are. All right, we are back with Chris Nudo throwing in humanity into the.
Into the. Into his world.
I want to go back into the love language that you mentioned into legacy. Yes, you're right. Unfortunately, we are all going to die.
So give us a little bit of what legacy means to you and Then what the. The love language, what that, how that ties into it?
[00:13:21] Speaker C: Absolutely. So everybody has a legacy story. And the question is, have you written it? Have you thought about it? Have you defined it?
Most people have not because they can't imagine the impact that they're having on their spouse, on their children, on nieces and nephews, on siblings, on the general community around them.
We impact people all the time just by being who we are. And the day comes where we're gone, where the Lord has swept us up, and we're no longer part of the earth because we've died. And in that moment is where your legacy story picks up.
And I.
I know that that legacy, legacy story, if not properly thought through, is going to. Could be frustration, it could be anger, it could be incredible loss, it could be confusion, it could be all of the above.
And so when we sit down and we write our legacy story, which includes a proper estate plan, which, which means that the assets that you leave behind get properly transferred according to your wishes, and it's well organized and well communicated, that in itself is a love language because you're. It's a selfless move where you are now considering all of the things that are going to transpire when you die and ensuring that. That the message, the legacy, if you would, to those people is set up and arranged correctly.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: Okay. You make me want to call my attorney right now and set my will up and get everything done properly, which I have not. As you can see, I'm starting to get more salt and pepper, more salt than pepper lately.
I want to go back into, have you written your.
Your legacy and have you defined it?
As an executive coach, I noticed that people don't go inward, so it's very difficult to answer that question that you. That you had.
So when you're in your practice, you also mentioned the. The impact and.
And it's hard to really think about what impact am I really having as Carlos Martin and to my friends, my ecosystem, whatever that might be.
When I start to think that way, I sound a bit narcissistic. Oh, look at me. And my impact that I'm having.
And again, that is my own personal thing. So how would you talk to an individual, to a client, and ask that question if someone is saying, like, I don't. Don't really understand, what do you mean, the impact?
How do you go into. To dig a little bit deeper for them to define it? And I love the fact that you're tying in that. Into.
Into their estate planning. But if someone's kind of Struggling with that. How do you help them or guide them to. To dig in a little bit deeper?
[00:16:54] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, this is one of those things where there is no perfect formula.
I have to, again, meet people where they're at. But I'm also realizing that a lot of my clientele comes to me not knowing who I am. The most they might know about me is they love my website. They might know the.
They love the name of the firm, because Integrity Law, everybody has their own opinion what the word integrity stands for.
They may have watched my video, but they don't know me.
So as I'm essentially sitting down with a stranger and I have to enlighten them quickly about the fact that for sure, I'm qualified to do their will, their trust, their documents. But at the end of the day, they need to really consider the pain that people experience when you die. And here's Carlos is where it becomes difficult.
There's a lot of people in this world that don't want to consider that, and that's fair. Dying to them is a scary thing.
Others may have just lost a parent or a child, and that internal grief they're still dealing with, and that's what's brought them to my office, and they don't want to relive that.
But to the extent that I can help them think about when they've lost somebody that they loved, perhaps a parent, and what they went through in that grieving period, and then translate that to what their children are going to have to go through, that is the bridge that often allows us then to start discussing what are the elements to their legacy story that we can incorporate into their planning that would reflect their values and still be extremely meaningful for their children.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: A lot of things are coming up for me, as you said, is what are the pain that your loved ones are going to go through?
So here we are. We're looking inward, but now we're kind of looking outward in a very selfless way. To say that is the love language. To say, okay, first of all, how do we have the courage to say, we're all going to go through this path, we're all going to die. And let's try to process that. And how do we empathize with our loved ones of what they possibly may be going through?
To be, like you said, to have that selfless act again, I love. And I don't think many of us think about that. Hey, I don't think a lot of us think about on the structural and the finance to make sure we don't leave them with any, you know, very expensive burials. But also, you know, if I look at my. My bank account, all of my $5, who are they gonna go to? Right.
Those are the simple things, more of the analytical things you could think of. But to be able to say, how is your family going to deal with this?
That is. That is. That is a. That is amazing. How did. And I know you mentioned. So is faith the number one when it. When it. When it came to you in regards to.
I want to look at my business different. I want to look at myself differently. I want to make a different impact. When we're talking about that self, this, you know, being selfless, is that mainly through faith? Tell us a little bit of more of how that intertwined for you.
[00:20:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
So the Lord works, as we know, in mysterious ways. And I cannot take credit for the design and the way we approach things here at Integrity Law.
I have to give the credit to the Lord. And that's because, truthfully, as a. Just a regular guy, I am a more of a transactional guy inwardly, like, it's. My core, is not this empathetic, thoughtful, want to get to know you kind of relational kind of person.
But God has definitely taken me and guides me and directs me and allows me to think in a certain way that ultimately Carlos produces these outcomes. And so it wasn't some brainchild that I came up with. This was not me all of a sudden having an epiphany that this is what we have to do. It was really the Lord's leading. And for those who have faith, they'll understand that who we are and what the Lord makes of us tend to be very different things.
And so what. What people, what my clientele and my friends and my family get to experience is this kind of dichotomy of the guy who desires to do the right thing, leading by the Lord, and then, you know, just your regular Joe who is just kind of make his way through life with everybody else.
So the firm itself is really God led.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: I like that you mentioned that wasn't necessarily your. Your center of gravity. Right. To be.
To be that individual.
What was the hardest thing about just. Was it letting go? Was it was a trust? Was it faith?
[00:22:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: You know, was he. What was. What was the internal.
To be able to say, that is not who I am. That is not who. How I'm wired. Tell us a little bit, because that must have been difficult to make that switch. Or maybe it wasn't a switch. Maybe it was, you know, months or years of of working through that. Tell us a little bit more.
[00:23:10] Speaker C: There's. I was challenged many, many years ago to try and out give God.
The. The premise was based around a church fundraising effort where the church encouraged everybody to give way outside of their comfort zone.
And I did that. As a matter of fact, I gave way outside my comfort zone. I gave really outside of my wife's comfort zone.
And.
And the premise was I'm going to try and out give God. And this might come off as a.
A.
Oh, I can't think of the term. But what I'm about to say is I gave and I gave big and the Lord gave bigger back in return.
And I'm not suggesting that this is a formula where the more you give God, the more you get back in return.
But that was my experience.
Prosperity gospel, that's what I was looking for. This is. Some may say, oh, Chris subscribes to the prosperity gospel where the more you give, the more you get back in return. And that is. I do not subscribe to that. However, Carlos, that's been my experience.
And so when I now take that to all kinds of levels. For example, this morning I met with a young lady who has very modest means and she couldn't afford to pay us. And so I essentially gave her the services for very little.
Why? Because it's the right thing to do.
And so I just.
This evolution, this switch, this change, whatever we call it, it really comes down to the word integrity.
It's in every situation trying to figure out in that situation what is the right thing to do.
And so the concept of out giving God and God giving back in return and can be interpreted in money. It can be reinterpreted in services. It can be interpreted in attitude. And as long as you keep that centered, that's how you get there. And that has been my mission as I've started to go down that path.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Wow. I love that. Thank you for that, Chris.
Out giving God. That's not going to happen. I love that.
[00:25:59] Speaker C: It doesn't.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not going to happen.
Thank you for sharing that. That moment. We'll be right back with Leadership Evolving. We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:26:09] Speaker B: stories and transformative leadership conversations. Stay with us. Leadership Today Evolving tomorrow.
I'm Carlos Martin and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Leadership Today Evolving tomorrow.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: All right, Chris, if people want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing, I definitely do want to learn more. Where. Where can they. Where can they go?
[00:26:40] Speaker C: So first place is go to our website, Integrity Law. And there you go, right on the screen. Beautiful. That there you can learn lots about us. There's a great video right on the homepage that can teach you a lot about me after that. You know, we're in all the typical places. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and we have our own YouTube channel with lots and lots of educational material. We love to educate the public.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Thank you for that.
So we, we ended a little abruptly on our last session. We run out of time. But I wanted to go back a little bit on the.
Well, you thought you were out giving God and you found otherwise.
And, and also you mentioned that is what worked for you and that was your own personal. Not even a formula. Right. It was just how things happen.
And I love that because, you know, especially now in the world that we live in and the social media world where like, this is what you need to do in order for you to find, be successful. These are the five things.
And I love your approach. They didn't say that.
You didn't say you need to give more is just do it in your own way. I love that. But also having the awareness that you thought you were out giving God and he showed you otherwise.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: That's right. And you know what? Life is not a formula.
And you know, we all have incredible complexities that come with who we are.
You know, did we have two parents?
Were we raised by two parents?
Were we. What type of neighborhood did we grow up in?
Were our parents the type of parents that bonded closely with us? Or were we more apt to have to struggle on our own? At what point did we leave the nest as you would.
All of these variables and environment that make up the person that we are today, from our greatest infancy to today is the reason that one formula doesn't work.
And so I can't pretend to know a person because their complexity is so great. The best I can do is in an illustrative way, give them the ideas and tools so that those tools and ideas make of mix with their makeup of who they are.
And then together we come together and we build this story together and we build their story together.
And so while my formula worked for me, it doesn't even work for my wife. That's how independent it is. And so I don't know. Carlos, did I answer the question?
[00:29:55] Speaker A: No. Absolutely. And there was no right or wrong way to answer that. It was like, like you said, that was the perfect.
That was your version. And that's the beauty of it to be for everyone. Like I said, even your wife, it was. She has a different. We couldn't even have to have it formula. It was just a different way of being with the relationship that we have with God or not have a relationship, but only that. The relationship that we have with ourselves and our experiences.
You know, we're. We're human beings. We're. We're so complex and simple at the same time. And we all have our own road.
And you know, and I think I. I think I love that we have our own complexity, our own journey. Our life is made of all our experiences. Like you said, from our parents or our, you know, our. How we grew up. There's so many things and, and sometimes it's easy for us or people to label us or for us to label people.
And yeah, there's value to that, but the reality is just come as you, as Chris Nudo, not the attorney, as Chris Nudo, the individual in his totality. And that shows up in. In different ways. So, so thank you. I wanted. You mentioned. Go ahead.
[00:31:12] Speaker C: Well, and I was going to say I want to kind of work off of that comment you made about labels and who we are because often the clients that come to me come to me with relatively high net worth. They might have, you know, anywhere from 2 to 20 million dollars. And that creates a thing we call in the United States status. And status is a label. And so what I try to do is disarm them from who they think I think they are because they're coming to me saying, well, I'm successful. I've run a business, I've made a ton of money. I am. And that's what defines them. And, and we.
I work very hard to say that's not who you are.
That is a blessing that you have experienced. Usually it's a blessing. And, but, but more now we're going to unpack that as you as a person, and we're going to leave that label behind.
We're not going to count status for anything. And now we're going to build the reality of. Of what it's going to look like when you die.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: I love that we're going down this rabbit hole. I want to stay there a little bit more, you know, because now you're talking about the perception, your perception of who they may be and also the perception of who we think we are.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Now we're going more into the identity piece and how we identify maybe that God syndrome because they have 2 to 20 million dollars and, and have that status. I mean, I remember when I used to travel a lot and I had the Marriott status, right? Oh, yeah, you could. Yeah, Mr. Martin. You could, you know, check in at.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: At.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: At after. Check out after 4. 4pm like, oh, yeah, welcome. Now I lost my status. Oh, can I check out at 4? Like, are you kidding? You'd be lucky if you could check out at, you know, before 11. I was like, God, you know, so the identity piece, that's a big one. So I almost see you more than an attorney is also like a coach to be able to. How do you disarm. I think that was the word that you use.
How do you disarm them from having that identity, the. To that status of the X of, you know, 20 or $2 million?
I have to say, that's probably more difficult than actually doing the law work.
[00:33:51] Speaker C: You know, it is, but it makes the law work so much more fulfilling.
And the.
So your children do not identify you as the CEO of your business.
They know you're the CEO of your business, but. But they don't identify you as. They identify you as mom or as dad.
And all of the values that you've instilled are not in your human resource department, although some of them may be.
They're at home.
And so. But the majority of people, unfortunately, especially those that are successful, identify as their job and their career. And therein lies where I have to really kind of be bold and say, hey, you know what? You are mom and dad. And now we need to create a plan to take your relationship with your children and set it up in a proper way that translates well and communicates well with them when you die.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a. That's a great point. Because the way that I'm looking at it is they put in their status next and maybe family and somewhere there, maybe God or faith, and maybe we have it, you know, wrong of putting faith in whatever you believe in and then being a mom or dad or a human.
And then eventually, yeah, a little bit of the status. But I think we move forward with ego, and I think that kind of catches up to us. I know it did for me on. In regards to the identity piece and, and that's a. That's a big one, the identity piece. Because me personally, I identified what I did for a living, you know, a few years back. And I remember going through this shift, the personal shift. I almost had to mourn the old identity. And that was a process for me. It was a difficult one, I have to say, because I was almost lost. I didn't know who I was once I left corporate.
Who am I? And it took me a while to figure that out. I know it sounds kind of silly, but when you identify what you do for a living for such a long time, it becomes part of you. And I, I have to say, and I know that for a fact for me, that was in completely incorrect or the wrong approach.
So thank you for that. We'll be right back with Leadership Evolving with more meaningful conversations. Thank you for staying tuned.
We'll see you soon. We'll be right back with more insights,
[00:36:46] Speaker B: stories and transformative leadership conversations.
Stay with us. Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
Carlos I'm Carlos Martin and this is Leadership Evolving on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the journey.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: And we are back.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Leadership Today Evolving Tomorrow.
[00:37:06] Speaker A: Welcome back. Remember to stay connected to this Leadership Evolving to this show and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand, anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock the non stop bilingual programming in English and in espanol on the move. Sure, why not? Catch the podcast everywhere you are.
So again, we are back with Chris, Chris Nudo and I want to be able to, to cover you mentioned a bit of the communication when it comes to families.
Tell us a little bit more of that because I, I, on a personal level, I don't think we really communicate all that well.
And for your practice and how that shows up and how important that may
[00:37:55] Speaker C: be, honestly, this is one of the more difficult areas, much like, you know, trying to get people to be vulnerable in their, their reality.
Communication is probably the next most difficult thing. But it is so important and so to the point where I can set the stage, kind of create the environment if you would, where I can explain that your estate plan for the most part, your plan for who's going to be in charge of in the event that you get sick, who's going to be in charge when you die, how your assets, you anticipate your assets being gifted to your children or perhaps part to a church or charities or nieces, nephews, you know, however you, whatever your plan is, it's really difficult to learn what your parents plan was after they died because when your parents die, you're, you know, you're not thinking about the houses and the bank accounts and the, that's not what you're thinking about.
You're thinking about the birthday parties. You're the dog that was raised in your house. You're thinking about, you know, the way they were with your children as Grandparents, you're, you're. And so.
But we have to deal with the estate aspects of it. You know, where are the bank accounts? Where is the property? What. What is the transition for the Florida home?
And so all of these things come down to communication.
And the more we can set up an environment where we communicate ahead of time, the better those things will be received and dealt with when the day comes that people pass away.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: Okay, that sounds logically. It makes a lot of sense, but I think the reality is very, very different.
I. I could tell you personally that is not what we do within our family.
Why do you think families don't do that? Even though logically it makes sense? And make sure we, you know, make sure the money is going to the right place, whether family or church, wherever it might be. And the other thing that comes to mind is we're not allowing ourselves to go through the grief, because now we got to think about if we didn't plan correctly. Now I got to think about, oh, what's going to happen with the house? And instead of saying, that's already covered, and not going to allow me and my family to go through the grief and have those beautiful memories instead of like, oh, now I have to worry about the financing. So that doesn't even make sense either. But somehow, what do you find out there? Is it fear? Is it. We don't want to hear of us dying. We don't want to hear of our parents dying or anybody or a loved ones dying. And so it's a fear out of sight, out of mind, of, I'll take care of it when I really have to.
[00:41:07] Speaker C: It's really two things, Carlos. Absolutely. What you said, there's always a fear based. We all live in some. Some form, some degree of fear base in everything in our life. And so when it comes to death, that is absolutely front and center.
But I do think it's something.
Something far more fundamental, and that is people don't talk about money.
They will brag about how much they may have, but they don't want to talk about money.
And so it is a taboo thing. As a matter of fact, I heard something at one point that I didn't believe, but it is true. People will brag about their good looks and their relationships and intimate matters in their life before they will talk about money and disclose money issues.
Money is that taboo subject even among your own children.
And it's a cultural thing, I'm guessing. I only know from United States perspective, but it is that lack of communication when it comes to money. That inhibits these communic, these conversations.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: I guess what comes up for me is if someone's not making a lot of money, they might be embarrassed about it, or if somebody is making a lot of money in the millions, they might come out as, you know, been narcissistic or showing off their money. So I feel like we can win if we have that approach when it comes to, to money. That's why I'm a fan of Scott Galloway. He's very open. I don't know if you ever heard any of his podcasts. You know, he's very wealthy and he talks about money in a very, I like to say, healthy way. Not only what he makes and also his losses to be able to have a better relationship with, with finance, not only that, with ourselves, but also to talk about that. Because I think what comes up for me is almost having a judgment, have that vulnerability and possibly being judged, either making a lot of money or little money, but I think is opening up that door for, for judgment. What do you, what do you think?
[00:43:33] Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. And that comes down to a whole topic. We haven't even unpacked in, nor will we have time, Carlos. But that is the concern about what other people think of us.
Yeah. And so I think you, you identified it correctly that you kind of danged if you do danged if you don't in, in that judgment arena. And so, and that narcissistic propensity.
And that is why we can tie the whole show right back to the beginning now and we can just say it's about your legacy story. It's about developing the important values in your life, transforming that into a narrative that includes the money aspect of it. And now you're not just so hyper focused on money. It's more the whole narrative of who I am, what I'm leaving behind and how I'm doing it.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: You reminded me of, you know, you probably heard this term is when we're younger, we work on a resume. As we get older, we start to work on our eulogy.
[00:44:51] Speaker C: It's true.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: So is it, is it more age based? Right. As I, you know, as I start to have a little bit more, again, more salt and pepper, you start to begin to not necessarily think about death, but think about maybe deeper things and also let go of people and what they, what they say.
So is it a little bit of that, of, of.
I guess when we're younger, we're working on the ego to go up the corporate ladder, make more money instead of, you know, shifting that and start Thinking about the eulogy, or, you know, maybe AKA or also known as the. As a legacy, is the eulogy and legacy kind of around the same ballpark? Is that completely different or.
[00:45:38] Speaker C: Yeah. So there's, there's, there's. Everybody has stages of life, all families do. You have the just got married phase. You have the young children phase. You have the high school phase. You have they're off to college phase. You have the now I have grandchildren phase.
And to your point, Carlos, this is the I have adult children, grandchildren type phase.
Before that, you're too focused on going to baseball games, on paying for college, on what grade school they're going to go to, and are they going to get into the high school you want.
Life has just got too many other things. So when you get to the age where you can step back and reflect on the fact that your kids have kids and your kids are now developing their own stories based, as, you know, salt and pepper themselves, this is the time that you start reflecting on these things. And your eulogy is a reflection of the legacy that you designed and left behind.
So you're not writing your legacy. You're defining your legacy by creating your legacy. Whoa. Did I just use the word too many times? I think I did.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: It's okay. It's a good word. It's a good word.
[00:47:05] Speaker C: I found myself in a spiral there.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: Well, when you talk about legacy, and you put it in a very good way, does your legacy begin now or does your legacy begin when we pass away or both end?
[00:47:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
You're going to have a legacy when you die, period.
Right. Whether you wrote it because you are, as a person going to leave behind your children, for example, and their memories of you, everything about you, what you taught them, and all your influence on them will be your legacy.
Period.
So now the question becomes, are you happy just letting history be your legacy, or would you prefer to influence it by making really good value decisions and designing the. The.
So I like to say this.
When you die, it should not be an end.
Your death should be a continuation, continuity.
Because when you die, while you may be gone, if properly structured, what you leave behind will carry on for generations. And we're not just talking about wealth. We're talking about family values, we're talking about culture, we're talking about everything that makes up who you want to be represented as a family man.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: It almost makes me think, is in your legacy, how did you make people feel opposed to how much money you left somebody? And I'm not saying. I'm not dismissing the money, that's really important. Especially we work really, really hard and give back to, to our family. But to say, how did you make people feel when they, when they, when you're passed away and they think of you.
To be able to say, you know what? Every time I talk to so and so, this is what I felt. He made me feel seen, he made me feel important, opposed to.
I know he or she worked really hard and now, you know, they left us a yacht. Okay, that, that's, that's fantastic.
But the materialistic, I think the feelings and how we, how we feel and that really stays. I think that carries legacy because that carries weight.
So thank you, Chris. This has been a beautiful conversation, a pleasant conversation, surprising conversation to talk to an attorney. And I love your pillars of life and how you see yourself, how you interact with others, your services.
But bigger than that is your humanity.
So thank you, Chris, for being on the show today.
[00:50:06] Speaker C: Thank you, Carlos.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thank you everyone that stayed with us. This has been leadership evolving. I'm your host, Carlos Martin, and we will see you next time.
